Comments on: Saint Mark of Ephesus on False Union and the Filioque http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/ Energies of the Trinity © Perry C. Robinson 2004-2009 Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:42:15 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Georgios Theodosiou http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-7081 Georgios Theodosiou Tue, 13 May 2008 07:30:22 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-7081 Mr Perry C. Robinson Please accept my congratulations for your website. Mr Matthew N. Petersen in his first message on this topic says: "And a Catholic could response by quoting a Catholic scholar who refutes every point here. And then you could respond by quoting another Orthodox who clearly refutes the Catholic. And you could quote Fathers till you die." In every dispute the question is who is right. The only way to find correct answer on matters of faith is to ask Holy Spirit that is God and third hypostasis of true God. With regards Sincerely George Theodosiou Mr Perry C. Robinson

Please accept my congratulations for your website. Mr Matthew N. Petersen in his first message on this topic says:
“And a Catholic could response by quoting a Catholic scholar who refutes every point here. And then you could respond by quoting another Orthodox who clearly refutes the Catholic. And you could quote Fathers till you die.”
In every dispute the question is who is right. The only way to find correct answer on matters of faith is to ask Holy Spirit that is God and third hypostasis of true God.

With regards
Sincerely
George Theodosiou

]]> By: Euthymios http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6393 Euthymios Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:25:10 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6393 Morey is not recognized among world class historians and theological scholars. Orthodoxy is the only true Church and according to the Fathers, all those who resist her, are damned. Morey is not recognized among world class historians and theological scholars. Orthodoxy is the only true Church and according to the Fathers, all those who resist her, are damned.

]]> By: Euthymios http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6382 Euthymios Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:22:39 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6382 People shouldn't trust peole like Robert Morey. Orthodox scholars don't even recognize him as a scholar. Morey is not a recognized Orthodox scholar. He has no business even talking on this subject. Evangelical Boola Boola Bible College graduates are not scholars. Jaroslav Pelikan received 42 honorary doctorates in addition to his academic one, was recognized by President Bill Clinton and the Library of Congress and the U.S. Government for his scholarly work, and received the John Kluge award (the Nobel Prize for the humanities). Pelikan converted to Orthodoxy from Lutheranism in 1998. He died in 2006. Pelikan was considered the greatest expert on Christian history in modern times. Georges Florvsky of Princeton wrote a book proving Sola Scriptura is ludicrous and was unknown in the ancient Church. "Bible, Church and Tradition." Read it. People shouldn’t trust peole like Robert Morey. Orthodox scholars don’t even recognize him as a scholar.

Morey is not a recognized Orthodox scholar. He has no business even talking on this subject. Evangelical Boola Boola Bible College graduates are not scholars.

Jaroslav Pelikan received 42 honorary doctorates in addition to his academic one, was recognized by President Bill Clinton and the Library of Congress and the U.S. Government for his scholarly work, and received the John Kluge award (the Nobel Prize for the humanities). Pelikan converted to Orthodoxy from Lutheranism in 1998. He died in 2006. Pelikan was considered the greatest expert on Christian history in modern times.

Georges Florvsky of Princeton wrote a book proving Sola Scriptura is ludicrous and was unknown in the ancient Church. “Bible, Church and Tradition.” Read it.

]]> By: Steven Todd Kaster http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6371 Steven Todd Kaster Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:15:08 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6371 The ongoing Latin confusion of "procession" (ekporeusis) and "manifestation" (proienai / pephenos) is one of the main obstacles to ecumenical advancement. The ongoing Latin confusion of “procession” (ekporeusis) and “manifestation” (proienai / pephenos) is one of the main obstacles to ecumenical advancement.

]]> By: Photios Jones http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6369 Photios Jones Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:55:02 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6369 No Maximus didn't. He denies that the Latins taught in that day a hypostatic origination with the Son being also a cause which is just the Augustinian and Carolingian doctrine. Go read Scienscki's brilliant dissertation on this letter and it's use at Florence. Mark of Ephesus put the letter forward as a basis of reunion, and the Latins denied because Maximus denied the Son was a cause, in any sense, of the hypostasis of the Spirit. Photios No Maximus didn’t. He denies that the Latins taught in that day a hypostatic origination with the Son being also a cause which is just the Augustinian and Carolingian doctrine. Go read Scienscki’s brilliant dissertation on this letter and it’s use at Florence. Mark of Ephesus put the letter forward as a basis of reunion, and the Latins denied because Maximus denied the Son was a cause, in any sense, of the hypostasis of the Spirit.

Photios

]]> By: St. Maximus on the filioque « De unione ecclesiarum http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6368 St. Maximus on the filioque « De unione ecclesiarum Tue, 22 Jan 2008 03:13:54 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6368 [...] that the interpretation Bekkos and Bessarion give of this passage is essentially right, and that Mark of Ephesus’s interpretation is basically wrong. St. Maximus, like John Bekkos, saw the filioque as [...] [...] that the interpretation Bekkos and Bessarion give of this passage is essentially right, and that Mark of Ephesus’s interpretation is basically wrong. St. Maximus, like John Bekkos, saw the filioque as [...]

]]> By: Matthew N. Petersen http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6348 Matthew N. Petersen Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:35:42 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6348 Yeah, I think you have. And don't worry about getting back too soon. I'll look forward to your response, but I don't require it immediately. It's just frustrating for me because I have always felt completely ignorant about the filioque, till about a month ago, but I don't think my argument is philosophical (as much of the filioque argument on both sides is) but from meditations on the life of Christ--the only possible source of knowledge of God. So its really frustrating when someone says I'm being rationalistic. Yeah, I think you have. And don’t worry about getting back too soon. I’ll look forward to your response, but I don’t require it immediately.

It’s just frustrating for me because I have always felt completely ignorant about the filioque, till about a month ago, but I don’t think my argument is philosophical (as much of the filioque argument on both sides is) but from meditations on the life of Christ–the only possible source of knowledge of God. So its really frustrating when someone says I’m being rationalistic.

]]> By: neochalcedonian http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6347 neochalcedonian Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:05:11 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6347 Matthew, I hope I've conversed with you charitably, I'm going to be busy for the next few days so I don't expect to be able to write any substantive reply until Monday at the earliest. Matthew,

I hope I’ve conversed with you charitably, I’m going to be busy for the next few days so I don’t expect to be able to write any substantive reply until Monday at the earliest.

]]> By: Matthew N. Petersen http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6346 Matthew N. Petersen Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:14:18 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6346 I think that creaturly activities and natural motions are analogous to generation and spiration for a couple of reasons: first, Christ tells us to pray "our Father" if our Father and His did not have an earthly analogue of fatherhood, this word is a lie. Second, Christ is the image not only of godness, but of the Father. By looking to Christ we see the Father. not merely some generic substance prior to Person. Third, St. Paul says all human families are named for the Father, that is, he says that fahterhood is an analogue to Fatherhood. Finally, we are to speak of the Father and the Son--that is, we are directly told to see fatherhood and sonship as an analogue of the Father and the Son. And if we refuse to do so, we are being idolatrous. But I don't claim to understand generation. I merely say that it is a two-way thing. This doesn't make sense to me, but I see it in the Icon that is Christ and His Mother. You on the other hand claim to be able to peer into it sufficiently to determine that it is not two way. I think that creaturly activities and natural motions are analogous to generation and spiration for a couple of reasons: first, Christ tells us to pray “our Father” if our Father and His did not have an earthly analogue of fatherhood, this word is a lie. Second, Christ is the image not only of godness, but of the Father. By looking to Christ we see the Father. not merely some generic substance prior to Person. Third, St. Paul says all human families are named for the Father, that is, he says that fahterhood is an analogue to Fatherhood. Finally, we are to speak of the Father and the Son–that is, we are directly told to see fatherhood and sonship as an analogue of the Father and the Son. And if we refuse to do so, we are being idolatrous.

But I don’t claim to understand generation. I merely say that it is a two-way thing. This doesn’t make sense to me, but I see it in the Icon that is Christ and His Mother. You on the other hand claim to be able to peer into it sufficiently to determine that it is not two way.

]]> By: Hieromonk Gregory http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6345 Hieromonk Gregory Thu, 17 Jan 2008 22:25:39 +0000 http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/01/16/saint-mark-of-ephesus-on-false-union-and-the-filioque/#comment-6345 Glory to the Father who is neither begotten nor proceeding; Glory to the Son who is eternally begotten of the Father; Glory to the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and rests in the Son. Amen Glory to the Father who is neither begotten nor proceeding; Glory to the Son who is eternally begotten of the Father; Glory to the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and rests in the Son. Amen

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