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	<title>Comments on: An Irish gem in the West: The Proper Use of Dialectic</title>
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	<description>Energies of the Trinity © Perry C. Robinson 2004-2009</description>
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		<title>By: Photios Jones</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7147</link>
		<dc:creator>Photios Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 13:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7147</guid>
		<description>Nobody&#039;s perfect. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody&#8217;s perfect. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7141</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 20:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7141</guid>
		<description>Photios, you didn&#039;t catch my dialectic!, I&#039;m now thinking.  &quot;The words are not the destination&quot; seems to separate them too much from God. Words, which I assume are part of the universe, also contain the wholeness of God, according to the quote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Photios, you didn&#8217;t catch my dialectic!, I&#8217;m now thinking.  &#8220;The words are not the destination&#8221; seems to separate them too much from God. Words, which I assume are part of the universe, also contain the wholeness of God, according to the quote.</p>
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		<title>By: Photios Jones</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7131</link>
		<dc:creator>Photios Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 May 2008 13:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7131</guid>
		<description>Neo,

I dunno and I haven&#039;t really thought about it much, but my first inclination is that it would be both. ;)

Photios</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,</p>
<p>I dunno and I haven&#8217;t really thought about it much, but my first inclination is that it would be both. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Photios</p>
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		<title>By: NeoChalcedonian</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7125</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoChalcedonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 23:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7125</guid>
		<description>Photios,

How would Euthyphro&#039;s Dilemma factor into this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Photios,</p>
<p>How would Euthyphro&#8217;s Dilemma factor into this?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7121</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 16:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7121</guid>
		<description>If God is beyond reason and beyond words, and science only points to a fallen,  dead, yet seductive view of creation, then &quot;who shall deliver [us] from the body of this death?&quot; (Romans 7:24) Turning toward our revelatory God is all we can and need to do. To use a scientific word, this can be &quot;classified&quot; as transcendence. Scientific or philosophical words can point us to the road, or even describe the road, but they are not the destination. And if we did not have guiding words (corrected by the Orthodox Church), we would probably stray off the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If God is beyond reason and beyond words, and science only points to a fallen,  dead, yet seductive view of creation, then &#8220;who shall deliver [us] from the body of this death?&#8221; (Romans 7:24) Turning toward our revelatory God is all we can and need to do. To use a scientific word, this can be &#8220;classified&#8221; as transcendence. Scientific or philosophical words can point us to the road, or even describe the road, but they are not the destination. And if we did not have guiding words (corrected by the Orthodox Church), we would probably stray off the road.</p>
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		<title>By: Photios Jones</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7119</link>
		<dc:creator>Photios Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 13:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7119</guid>
		<description>Neo,

(1) St. Photios said that dialectic and philosophy is competent in its own sphere in the evaluation of &quot;sensible things&quot; and I believe St. Gregory of Nyssa said the same. In other words, the sciences, but its competence is only an evaluation of a fallen world not paradise, which leads to point 2.

(2) The fall according to the Fathers left us with burden of sensible analysis and the seduction of the mind by sense.

Your question also reminds me, I need to do a post on Monophysitism and how it&#039;s Christology of aspects of Christ as &quot;nature&quot; or &quot;miracle&quot; (depending on which aspect is in view) renders Science impossible since it renders a wholesale surrender of &quot;nature&quot; and lies outside the Logos (Rational Principle) (following Dr. Farrell here).

Photios</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,</p>
<p>(1) St. Photios said that dialectic and philosophy is competent in its own sphere in the evaluation of &#8220;sensible things&#8221; and I believe St. Gregory of Nyssa said the same. In other words, the sciences, but its competence is only an evaluation of a fallen world not paradise, which leads to point 2.</p>
<p>(2) The fall according to the Fathers left us with burden of sensible analysis and the seduction of the mind by sense.</p>
<p>Your question also reminds me, I need to do a post on Monophysitism and how it&#8217;s Christology of aspects of Christ as &#8220;nature&#8221; or &#8220;miracle&#8221; (depending on which aspect is in view) renders Science impossible since it renders a wholesale surrender of &#8220;nature&#8221; and lies outside the Logos (Rational Principle) (following Dr. Farrell here).</p>
<p>Photios</p>
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		<title>By: NeoChalcedonian</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7118</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoChalcedonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 05:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7118</guid>
		<description>Photios,

(1) What are the &#039;proper domains&#039; of reason &amp; language?
(2) Is the misuse of the dialectical tools supposed to be an effect of the darkened eye of the soul?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Photios,</p>
<p>(1) What are the &#8216;proper domains&#8217; of reason &amp; language?<br />
(2) Is the misuse of the dialectical tools supposed to be an effect of the darkened eye of the soul?</p>
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		<title>By: Photios Jones</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7117</link>
		<dc:creator>Photios Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 03:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7117</guid>
		<description>Neo,

That is correct, the only caveate is that when Eriugena (or his predecessors) starts using language of the divinity (i.e. the divine essence) in contradictory terms (e.g. &quot;the divinity: nothing&quot;; &quot;the being of beings is the divinity beyond being&quot;), he is moving beyond the realms of empirical theology (i.e. the ordo theologiae of asking questions) and into mystical theology, apophaticism, and devotion. For Eriugena, the divine essence is radically unknowable and undefinable in the same way that it is for Sts. Maximus and Dionysius. The both/and dialectic takes on a &quot;function&quot; of the ultimate inadequacy of all language applied to God. The event horizon of rational speech has exhausted itself at that point. For Eriugena, this is the method, this is how God has revealed Himself, and how we as human can speak of Him.

Photios</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,</p>
<p>That is correct, the only caveate is that when Eriugena (or his predecessors) starts using language of the divinity (i.e. the divine essence) in contradictory terms (e.g. &#8220;the divinity: nothing&#8221;; &#8220;the being of beings is the divinity beyond being&#8221;), he is moving beyond the realms of empirical theology (i.e. the ordo theologiae of asking questions) and into mystical theology, apophaticism, and devotion. For Eriugena, the divine essence is radically unknowable and undefinable in the same way that it is for Sts. Maximus and Dionysius. The both/and dialectic takes on a &#8220;function&#8221; of the ultimate inadequacy of all language applied to God. The event horizon of rational speech has exhausted itself at that point. For Eriugena, this is the method, this is how God has revealed Himself, and how we as human can speak of Him.</p>
<p>Photios</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: NeoChalcedonian</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7113</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoChalcedonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 23:35:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7113</guid>
		<description>Photios,

Thanks, now let me take my analysis a few steps further. 

The only reason that Eriugena is able to predicate this &#039;both/and&#039; dialectic of the same object is that he has started with the person, not attempted definitions of the essence, not even the &#039;how&#039; of the operation(s).  Contemplation &amp; empirical description of the encounter with the &#039;who&#039; must precede all other questions &amp; assertions.  The Augustinian order of theology makes the above text completely unreadable for it would have to made to look something like this:

&quot;For just as [The Divine Essence] is both beyond all things and in all things — for He Who only truly is...&quot;

Of course, this is wholly nonsensical since two contrary attributes cannot inhere or be predicated of the same &#039;what.&#039;  In this altered text, the categories of essence, energy and person have been irredeemably confused: (1) the operations of the Person have been made the definition of the essence, (2) the essence has been made the subject of the operations, and (3) the Person has been turned into an operation of the essence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Photios,</p>
<p>Thanks, now let me take my analysis a few steps further. </p>
<p>The only reason that Eriugena is able to predicate this &#8216;both/and&#8217; dialectic of the same object is that he has started with the person, not attempted definitions of the essence, not even the &#8216;how&#8217; of the operation(s).  Contemplation &amp; empirical description of the encounter with the &#8216;who&#8217; must precede all other questions &amp; assertions.  The Augustinian order of theology makes the above text completely unreadable for it would have to made to look something like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;For just as [The Divine Essence] is both beyond all things and in all things — for He Who only truly is&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, this is wholly nonsensical since two contrary attributes cannot inhere or be predicated of the same &#8216;what.&#8217;  In this altered text, the categories of essence, energy and person have been irredeemably confused: (1) the operations of the Person have been made the definition of the essence, (2) the essence has been made the subject of the operations, and (3) the Person has been turned into an operation of the essence.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/an-irish-gem-in-the-west-the-proper-use-of-dialectic/#comment-7111</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 17:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/?p=238#comment-7111</guid>
		<description>This statement from the article makes me interested in taking your recommendation, even thought it&#039;s $30 from Amazon, &quot;to defend the doctrine of liberty of will against the extreme predestinarianism of...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This statement from the article makes me interested in taking your recommendation, even thought it&#8217;s $30 from Amazon, &#8220;to defend the doctrine of liberty of will against the extreme predestinarianism of&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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